Te following is another interesting discussion I had about prayer with another nice lady. It is amazing how a believer will use illogical arguments to hang on to their conviction that there is a Deity who will listen to, and act upon, a prayer. If, as in most cases, their prayer is not answered then they conclude that that is god's divine will and although we cannot understand his reasoning he knows what's best.
Here is what I wrote:
When my son lost his car key while shoveling the driveway, he was desperate because he figured it was buried somewhere in the huge snowbank. He had looked everywhere but not a sign of it anywhere. I walked out and there was this small black spot in the loose snow and yes! There was the key! It prompted me to think that if I was a believer, and had prayed to god to help me find the key, after it was thought to be impossible to find, I would have believed that my prayer was answered. Many people think that way and it would strengthen their belief. But finding the key was just luck, just as not finding it would have been unlucky. Just a thought.
Try this thought... Luck is an unseen, unknowable force. By going outside to "try your luck" with finding the key, you were hoping for success. What is hope but a prayer to the god Luck. God comes in many forms, as does prayer. Who is to say that luck is not an aspect of what we call God. Just a thought.
I appreciate the comment because I find it very interesting to learn how religious thoughts are so intertwined in our society. Somehow many people "see" god everywhere even if there is no logical reason to do so. Luck is luck, not an aspect of "god" or an unseen, unknowable force. Luck is success or failure brought on by chance! There are so many imaginary gods in the world which indicate that they are only existing in the minds’ imagination otherwise there would be only one with the same message to all people.
What if it was God who helped you to find it, whether you asked or not! He does things like that.
That is fantasy! I can just as well say that god "helped" me to have that accident when I totalled my car a few weeks ago. Praising god for good things but not for bad things is ridiculous. You can be lucky or unlucky, that's random, that's all there is to it, anything else is wishful thinking and refusing to face reality. Only in your mind you concluded that "he does things like that". This way you can "explain" anything.
I don't think we realize how many more bad things would happen without God. It is true there's evil, but good is more powerful. I'm glad to see good even come out of evil and glad to see things turn around for better.
Why would more bad things happen without God? Please explain.
It is the Christian belief that, though there is evil, God does still overpower that evil. We believe that He does keep his hand on his creation - so that in the end we will see that his plan for good prevailed. It doesn't mean that life is easy, but we believe that, in spite of evil, good will always be the stronger force. We believe that God will always have the final word on how things turn out for us. The personality of God is such that he could have helped you find the keys even knowing that he won't be thanked. He is so unlike us in not doing things for what he will get out of it. Yes, bad things happen, but good and God are stronger.
I know that, no matter what reasons I can put forward, she believes that a god exists and it is not my intention to shake her belief as it obviously fulfills a great need in her life. But I like to show those people who might read this and have doubts about the existent of god, that there are only irrational responses to the important questions asked about why god does some good things and allows bad things to happen. A statement such as "he is so unlike us in not doing things for what he will get out of it" does not make sense and does not even remotely answers the question asked. Do notice, however, that the questions which ask to explain god's behavior always get answered by believers mentioning that we mortals cannot understand god's reasoning. What a cop-out. Did god make my son loose the keys so god could help me, an unbeliever, to find them? Why? To make me a believer? Not a chance! O, I get it, he has a good reason, only we are to dumb to understand it.
Here is what I wrote:
When my son lost his car key while shoveling the driveway, he was desperate because he figured it was buried somewhere in the huge snowbank. He had looked everywhere but not a sign of it anywhere. I walked out and there was this small black spot in the loose snow and yes! There was the key! It prompted me to think that if I was a believer, and had prayed to god to help me find the key, after it was thought to be impossible to find, I would have believed that my prayer was answered. Many people think that way and it would strengthen their belief. But finding the key was just luck, just as not finding it would have been unlucky. Just a thought.
Try this thought... Luck is an unseen, unknowable force. By going outside to "try your luck" with finding the key, you were hoping for success. What is hope but a prayer to the god Luck. God comes in many forms, as does prayer. Who is to say that luck is not an aspect of what we call God. Just a thought.
I appreciate the comment because I find it very interesting to learn how religious thoughts are so intertwined in our society. Somehow many people "see" god everywhere even if there is no logical reason to do so. Luck is luck, not an aspect of "god" or an unseen, unknowable force. Luck is success or failure brought on by chance! There are so many imaginary gods in the world which indicate that they are only existing in the minds’ imagination otherwise there would be only one with the same message to all people.
What if it was God who helped you to find it, whether you asked or not! He does things like that.
That is fantasy! I can just as well say that god "helped" me to have that accident when I totalled my car a few weeks ago. Praising god for good things but not for bad things is ridiculous. You can be lucky or unlucky, that's random, that's all there is to it, anything else is wishful thinking and refusing to face reality. Only in your mind you concluded that "he does things like that". This way you can "explain" anything.
I don't think we realize how many more bad things would happen without God. It is true there's evil, but good is more powerful. I'm glad to see good even come out of evil and glad to see things turn around for better.
Why would more bad things happen without God? Please explain.
It is the Christian belief that, though there is evil, God does still overpower that evil. We believe that He does keep his hand on his creation - so that in the end we will see that his plan for good prevailed. It doesn't mean that life is easy, but we believe that, in spite of evil, good will always be the stronger force. We believe that God will always have the final word on how things turn out for us. The personality of God is such that he could have helped you find the keys even knowing that he won't be thanked. He is so unlike us in not doing things for what he will get out of it. Yes, bad things happen, but good and God are stronger.
I know that, no matter what reasons I can put forward, she believes that a god exists and it is not my intention to shake her belief as it obviously fulfills a great need in her life. But I like to show those people who might read this and have doubts about the existent of god, that there are only irrational responses to the important questions asked about why god does some good things and allows bad things to happen. A statement such as "he is so unlike us in not doing things for what he will get out of it" does not make sense and does not even remotely answers the question asked. Do notice, however, that the questions which ask to explain god's behavior always get answered by believers mentioning that we mortals cannot understand god's reasoning. What a cop-out. Did god make my son loose the keys so god could help me, an unbeliever, to find them? Why? To make me a believer? Not a chance! O, I get it, he has a good reason, only we are to dumb to understand it.
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